Women's default rate on child support

12
Mister-M Says:

April 27th, 2009 at 7:31 am
Maybe in our letters... we can also point out that as a gender, women TOTALLY DEFAULT on their child support obligations (and partially default) at a significantly greater percentage than do men.

It's almost 2-to-1.

I wonder if they'll be tracking down any deadbeat moms?

Mister-M, again you MRA's are confused....How do women "TOTALLY" default on their child support obligations? This is suggesting that EVERY woman ignores chidl support. A handful of MRA's on a website with sob stories on how they have been wronged by family court do not lead and cannot lead to that assumption. Women default due to lower earning capacities compared to men who have typically been in the workforce longer. Women are typically in and out of the workforce. Men typically work more dangerous jobs, whereas women are your service workers who are "safe" and as such are paid less, which will lead to a higher default rate. Also you have fewer moms who are required to pay child support and as such simple mathematics rule here. You have a group of one million men and a default rate of 10% that is 100,000. If you have a group of mothers required to pay support again it is always smaller so the percentages will be larger even if the amount is smaller. This is also the theory behind why more moms are found to be abusive or neglectful of their children using MRA quoted statistics. Again sheer numbers of women who are responsible for the care of children and the amount of time for each parent in their periods of responsibility will increase these stats.

I know several women who are paid up and ahead in their obligations. I also know many women who are "homeless" due to child support and due to the man lying about his income in order to get more support. I also know many men who default on their support, I know many who are responsible and I know quite a few who fall somewhere in the middle. I know one man who, even when faced with a court order to have the support deducted from his weekly paycheck, the custodial mother is lucky to see a payment once a month. It is only until this woman files court papers that payments start rolling in. I also know this women is doing everything in her power to obtain better employment so she does not have to rely on the child support, this money can in fact be used for extras for the child. This woman in fact has increased her income by more than 4 dollars an hour in the last 3 years. She has bettered her employment so the hours are more suitable for the child and herself, she has bettered her working conditions to a point. She also attends school so she can increase her earning potential which was cut short due to her abusive and controlling spouse, (no wife of mine will work, she needs to serve me - me Tarzan, you Jane). Sadly, the children involved in this family sees the mother's steps to better herself, and they also see the father's continued degridation of the mother. Who do you think will "win" in this situation?

Nobody.....but the mother will no longer have to rely on a man to provide for her.

Oh and Mister-M why don't you share these statistics? I am sure that they can be debuked just as MRA statistics on intimate partner violence (those stats using the Conflict Tactic Scales) have been.

Rap Misogyny & J-Shin's 'Baby Mama Drama'

If you choose to go to this site you will see every single post attacks the original poster "LorMarie". She correctly calls out GS when he has failed to mention the prevelance of female hatred by men in rap songs. He tries to make up for this by making a post about rap. I have two things to say about this post. First - he posts the ENTIRE lyrics to the other two male hate by female songs on his site and on this post he conveniently only pulls out the lyrics which will fit his agenda. Second - TOO LITTLE TOO LATE GS.

Read all comments here:

1
huilenowl Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
LorMarie, a reader, was also correct in retorting that "male rap artists can rap about degrading women" without protest, calling it a "double standard."

I am sorry but this statement by LorMarie is utterly false. Do a google search of mysogyny, rap lyrics, and you will see how false this feminist retort is. It is basesless, factless and attempts to absolve women of her ilk from holding women like beyonce responsible and accountable. Their are no books, programs or congressional members broaching the subject of misandry, there are all of the aforementioned when it comes specifically to rap and mysogyny.

There are no classroom discussions denouncing beyonce, but male rap lyrics are routinely the subject of classroom discourse. Male rap artists do no play their mysogynistic songs on Good Morning America to the delight of Diane Sawyer, or on Oprah-- Beyonce however does. The double standard that LorMarie wants to protest doesn't exist in any manner shape or way that she wants to pretend it does.

2
Mister-M Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Except that LorMarie was incorrect in stating that male rap artists sing misogynistic lyrics without protest. Other than that, the article has some merit.

3
Marc A. Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
That you, Huilenowl, for taking the words right out of my mouth. I totally agree. I was about to respond to that and was glad to see you already did. I do not see how anyone can say it is "without protest" when there is tons of protest. I specifically recall when Nelly had to cancel his show because Black women protested his lyrics. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4816719/

How is that "without protest"? I hear of similar opposition all the time.

Even worse is the claim that this is somehow a "double standard when in fact the double standard is exactly the OPPOSITE. Nobody challenges misandry when it's all over the MAINSTREAM. Commercials, comedy, humor, etc. You are absolutely, 100%, CORRECT. Misogyny gets pushed to the fringes and "shock" DJ's and then still gets protested, while, as Warren Farrell puts it, "Male bashing is a Hallmark card."

4
john Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
lormarie is wrong....conservatives have spoken out against rap (i don't call them artists-lol...they can't even sing)...i've heard them do so on the radio and tv....but....you won't hear liberals speak out on thisi believe because they are too busy kissing up for their votes....and they are to scared to loose their support

5
Marc A. Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
"won't hear liberals speak out on thisi believe because they are too busy kissing up for their votes....and they are to scared to loose their support"

Not true. Liberals and feminists speak out about this alot. And they're hypocritical when they do, just as the conservatives are, because they both ignore the misandry and only speak about misogyny.

When it comes to gender issues, I see plenty of hypocrisy in both left and right camps.

6
Lance Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
GS: "LorMarie, a reader, was also correct in retorting that "male rap artists can rap about degrading women" without protest, calling it a "double standard.""

Sure...right...when has the Today Show ever done a segment on anti-male lyrics? Rarely if ever...but they hit the anti-female lyrics all the time.

The double standard is in the fact that society seems to recognize that anti-female lyrics are wrong...but they seem to let pass anti-male lyrics.

This is just another "me-too" from LorMarie I think. Is she right to point out anti-female lyrics? Sure..but don't try to get props by saying that there is an anti-female double standard going on when the double standard is clearly anti-male.

7
Lance Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Oh, and what huilenowl said.

8
ManCan Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
The key to victory is white men and black men getting together for their common interests, and bashing each other's music makes that a lot harder.

9
ManCan Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
"Anti-female lyrics" are not wrong.

10
pj Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
‘Baby Mama Drama’, a truthful song that accurately depicts the situation for so many fathers whose children are born out of wedlock!

I believe it could also be called the Truth song, I'm lovin' it !

The detractors sound a lot like the narrow-minded, backward, ignorant elitist kooks that used to burn Beatle albums by the hundreds in the middle of the street back in the day.

And we all know what happened to 'vile, degrading and violent' rock n' roll, and especially the Beatles!

I formally dub the magnificently hypocritical criticism of so-called 'misogynistic' Rap as the:

'The Triple Slander Standard'

11
sonja Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
'"Anti-female lyrics" are not wrong.'

Care to expand on that, ManCan? I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

12
TF Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Black males are more intimately familiar with growing up in a matriarchy. Art is a depiction of the artist's perception or imagination or reality.

13
lormarie Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
There are no classroom discussions denouncing beyonce--huilenowl

That's because Beyonce was singing about an image that male rappers regularly present about themselves. Her song also lacked the anti-male and female degredation and violence often present in rap music. I swear, the onset of NWA and Easy-E sent rap down the drain, LOL.

Now if Beyonce were to sing a song depicting AA (African American) males as subhuman male "hos" who should be beaten or performs on stage with a noose, I'd say we have a problem. Until then, I don't think that her song is any worse than much of what is played on the radio (including country, rock, R&B) by male and female artists.

14
perspicacious Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Back to the song lyrics...no start with the title. Baby Mama. Maybe if young black AND white people thought of babies in terms of husband and wife, there would be more respect for one another and a better outcome for the children. The song is junk that only serves to further push a wrong idea about what reproducing *human beings* is supposed to entail. JMO.

I will be updating this as new comments are posted as I can rightfully imagine there will be few posts to commend Glenn on his half assed post regarding rap.

15
Nelson Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
This idea that misogynist lyrics arent criticized is claptrap. The Stones were criticized for "Under my thumb" decades ago, then there was GnR and NWA in the eighties and nineties. All these guys got heavy heat for their lyrics, meanwhile Beyonce gets a free ride.

16
lormarie Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
Nelson Says:

January 10th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
This idea that misogynist lyrics arent criticized is claptrap. The Stones were criticized for "Under my thumb" decades ago, then there was GnR and NWA in the eighties and nineties. All these guys got heavy heat for their lyrics, meanwhile Beyonce gets a free ride.

GNR also caught heat for using the "N" word in "One In A Million." A term ironically used by "N"WA in their very name. Strangely enough, it did little to dampen their (GNR) popularity.

17
BASTA! Says:

January 11th, 2009 at 12:19 am
> GNR also caught heat for using the "N" word in "One In A Million."

Isn't that a textbook example of a red herring?

18
ManCan Says:

January 11th, 2009 at 3:26 am
Most of the lyrics aren't "mysoginist," anyway. It's mostly just rappers bragging about all the hot b*tches they've nailed. But when a man discusses his adolescent desires and frustrations we need to have a debate about it to make sure he isn't persecuting women; when a woman discusses her feelings it's healthy. How ridiculous can you get?

19
ManCan Says:

January 11th, 2009 at 3:32 am
Quite frankly, I would like to see more music that is "anti-female" (or anti-feminist, more specifically). Songs about women pretending to be helpless, exploiting the system, failing to raise children on their own, lying about men, etc. I hope the word "ho" won't be used because I wouldn't want prostitutes to be unfairly compared to the kind of women I'm referring to.

20
Danny Says:

January 11th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
All I can say is that I have yet to see a male singer come up with a song that shows male against female violence and actually have the video applauded when a clip of it is played on a daytime talk show.

21
John D Says:

January 11th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Here is as close to a recrimination as a black comedian I think could possibly come.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=z9A2I-X7b-w

Chris Rock detailing how hard it is to defend rap music anymore.

The main thing about rap (regardless of the color) is that they hail from a totally different culture.

What is this culture? The poor urban slums. The only thing nearly universal about these homes is that they are fatherless. Some 98% of homes in poor urban slums are fatherless.

Maybe this is an indication that the great feminist science experiment/gameshow "trade dads 4 checks" was a miserable failure.

'You have lost a lot of my affection and respect because of your...relationship with your father'

16 (Editor Note - Post Number)
AnonymousPamphleteer Says:

January 8th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
If using surreptitious video and audio were legal in more states and more contexts, it would showcase nicely how female behavior is so often at great variance from what our courts like to pretend.

And it would be a great way to catch the tiny minority of males who truly are physically abusive.

You mean females who are trying to escape a battering, abusive man? Oh and nicely put again (more perpetuation of the myth) that only a tiny majority of men are physically abusive. What about all the 'controlling' man who are abusive in other ways? Like verbal, psychological, financial, medical? My ex runs the gamut of these. I have proof as well which will be made public in less than a decade, quite possibly sooner if things go HIS way.

17 (Editor Note - Post Number)
Attila L. Vinczer Says:

January 8th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
TF

Thankfully, although still sad, my boys aged 6 and 8 have figured it out and have even at the age 3 and 5 asked me why is mommy so mean to you daddy? I am having a tough time teaching the children to not hate their mother. I have never said a single bad thing about their mother no matter how much I would sometimes want to explain to the children how and why I feel the way I do about the reason of our divorce which the children inquire about often.

You are right TF. I am lucky to see my kids as I was the subject of a failed false sexual allegation and unbelievably just two weeks before Christmas the ex managed to engage CPS (CAS Children’s Aid Society in Canada) who nearly separated me from my children who were actually taken into their custody for about two hours while CPS blackmailed me into signing an Agreement under duress threatening me that they would place the children into foster care if need be if I did not comply. Big mistake for them as I have irrefutable evidence and will take them to task in court. I did not cave in and I prevailed as the children are with me once again.

The children now hate CPS and their mother even more. I am concerned that I will be accused of turning the children against their mother which I never have and have no intention to do as she did it all to herself.

Attila

Quite ironic that 'Atilla' is concerned with PAS being used against him since his children hate their mother. Is this not what the abused moms have been saying all along? And those rare mothers who do manage to keep the child safe from an abuser by retaining primary residential custody, is this not echoed by them as well? I know I say it quite often - the children will hate their father unless he stops abusing me - their mother.

25 (Editor Note - Post Number)
fish Says:

January 9th, 2009 at 9:05 am
(I should also note I've seen many cases where a noncustodial parent is an ass and claims it's PAS when it's just kids reacting to a controlling and/or abusive jerk).

Why these apologies? Cant there just be a story about a jerk woman? Why does there need to be some sort of admission about men to get people to read the article? Where does this guilt come from?

Why should it be noted? Is it necessary to deface men to get people to read further into an article about women?

Well fish, lets see why this should be mentioned...because men can and do act like jerks. They do abuse women and children. I speak to countless women who have lost custody in court to an abusive man. I retained custody simply because I told the judge what he wanted to hear. If it were up to me, the children's father would only have supervised visits until numerous requirements are met, first and foremost a minimum of 6 months of batterers counseling. Second, he would lose all gained unsupervised time at the first sign of any abuse, whether physical or not. These are the two most important but there are many others. Oh and I should add wah wah wah fish is crying about the poor poor menz and why are womynz even mentioned? It is always the poor poor men who suffer. Yeah okay here is YOUR sign.

30 (Editor Note - Post Number)
AMan Says:

January 9th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Glenn said: I should also note I've seen many cases where a noncustodial parent is an ass and claims it's PAS when it's just kids reacting to a controlling and/or abusive jerk

I have no issue with this but why when it comes to insulting bad men, both women and men have no issue in demonising men. But when it comes to women, we don't?

I mean the mother in this case is (emotionally) abusive and a total jerk. Judges treat women with kids gloves. If they want equality then they should be dealt in the same fashion men are dealt in the court and media. These women are vile.

Are you referring to all women or just the relative few whom Glenn calls out on his site? Sre you guilty of what you accuse women of - calling all women bad for the few that are profiled in the media?

33 (Editor Note - Post Number)
Mister-M Says:

January 9th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Imagine if she was of the public stature of Alec Baldwin. Oh, wait, she's a woman. She wouldn't get vilified like he did.

Baldwin was vilified? What shows are you watching? he has retained his lucrative contract with NBC and in fact they REFUSE to release him from said contract. He was invited on the View and numerous other shows to pander on about PAS. He has written a book about PAS for which he receives royalties. This book has 50,000+ reviews on buy.com. Baldwin is reallllllllly suffering from all of this. Now lets look at the other side of this issue...His child was called vile names by her father in a voice mail message. Her parents have been fighting over her for years. Gee I wonder who is the true victim here? Documented cases of abuse perpetrated by Baldwin abound, none that I have seen about the mother (except on MRA/FR boards) are available. Who is REALLY the victim here?

34 (Editor Note - Post Number)
Badger Says:

January 9th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Offended_Dad Says:

Wow, does this mom ever think the world revolves around her, or what?

Not surprising considering the gender. Generalization I know but me thinks far more wimmin believe the world revolves around them than men do.

And what do you call the myriad of men's rights websites (like GS)? What do you call the constant whining of men on this board and others? What do you call the constant attacks any public figure takes when stepping forward and talking about women's rights? What do you call the constant attacks women's rights bloggers take from MRA/FR figures?